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Six Heated Exchanges From Deputy Prime Minister’s Grilling By Top UK Journalist

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Deputy Prime Minister Chris Fearne was forced onto the defensive during a hard-hitting interview with veteran journalist Tim Sebastian for Deutsche Welle, which zoomed in on several national controversies – from the assassination of Daphne Caruana Galizia to the sale of citizenship scheme and the Panama Papers. 

Fearne’s responses were often brief and dismissive, referring to ongoing legal processes to brush off calls on the government to shoulder political responsibility and steering away from rebuking any of the government’s critics. However, Sebastian – famed for his tough questions on BBC’s HardTalk – was not impressed and constantly kept the pressure on Fearne. 

Here are the most interesting moments of the interview. 

On Daphne Caruana Galizia’s murder 

Instantly questioned on why the Maltese police have only been able to solve two out of the 28 car bomb incidents which have occurred since 2003, Fearne said he is confident the ongoing Caruana Galizia murder investigations could give the police crucial leads on other car bombs. 

Sebastian: “In the aftermath of the killing, Joseph Muscat rather curiously described it as a wake-up call. Out of the 28 bombings since 2003, only two have been solved. It sounds like a rather late wake-up call, doesn’t it?” 

Fearne: “In this case, the police have done a very good job as barely six weeks after her murder, they arraigned three people last week.” 

Sebastian: “I understand that, but out of 28 bombings, only 26 have been solved.”

Fearne: “This case gives us confidence that we can solve the other cases too. The Caruana Galizia case was very shocking to the nation. No murder is a normal murder but this was a particularly striking and shocking one for us. This was a criminal gang trying to send out a message that freedom of expression in Malta is threatened…it was a very grave occurrence.”

On the Mafia and the secrecy of Malta’s passport scheme

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Questioned on why the government is refusing to publish the names of the beneficiaries of Malta’s sale-of-citizenship scheme to Italy’s anti-Mafia commission, Fearne’s instant response was that the Individual Investor Programme has been approved by the European Commission.

Sebastian: “I didn’t say it was illegal, but you’re not providing information that law enforcement agencies are asking for.”

Fearne: “Yes, we are. There is Europol who we will cooperate with. We’ll go through with any requests that are sent through them, so long as they are in accordance with Maltese law.”

He dismissed warnings from Italy’s anti-Mafia commission that Malta is “offering hospitality” to the Mafia. 

“These are unfounded allegations. The Anti-Mafia Commission didn’t come forward with any evidence to back up her claims, and it’s unfair to take everything at face value just because it has been reported in the international press. Malta is an EU country, we have European standards and we have the rule of law, no one is above the law.”

On the rule of law in Malta

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Sebastian challenged Fearne on a stark warning by a European Parliament committee on the state of the rule of law in Malta, and a warning by the Chief Justice on the dangers of replacing the rule of law with the “law of delinquents”. 

Fearne: “Nobody is above the law in Malta, from the Prime Minister downwards. You can accuse people all you like but at the end of the day, these allegations must be proven in court. It’s barely been six weeks since the shocking murder of Caruana Galizia and we’ve actually arraigned people in court. It’s a very significant development.”

Sebastian: “Do you think the three suspects are responsible for the entire assassination?”

Fearne: “Let’s wait and see what the compilation of evidence brings up, just like countries with a strong rule of law.”

On Labour’s relationship with Daphne Caruana Galizia

Sebastian repeatedly referred to Labour’s fraught relationship with Daphne Caruana Galizia over the years, noting that justice minister Owen Bonnici had described her as “extreme” while education minister Evarist Bartolo had accused her of attacking people who were sick. 

Sebastian: “Many of your colleagues loathed her.” 

Fearne: “I wouldn’t say that, no.”

Sebastian: “She was facing over 40 lawsuits at the time of her death, including one by the Prime Minister himself. You went after her with a vengeance, didn’t you?”

Fearne: “No, no, in a country with the rule of law, journalists are allowed to say what they feel like, but then anyone who feels aggrieved has the right to take them to court. There have been cases where she was acquitted and others where she was found guilty.”

Fearne also suggested Caruana Galizia’s famous last line “There are crooks everywhere you look, the situation is desperate now” was more of a reference to Opposition leader Adrian Delia than to the Labour government. 

Sebastian: “She said the situation was desperate. Did her murder prove that?”

Fearne: “No, I don’t think she was referring to the criminal gang who …well, I don’t know what she was referring to, but for the past two months before her brutal murder she had been writing about the new Opposition leader. Everyone though, didn’t she? She didn’t single out the Opposition.

Fearne: “Well, no she didn’t. She criticised practically everyone on the island as was her right and people who felt aggrieved had the right to take her to court as is the case in a normal country. You’re saying that what she wrote was connected to the murder but that’s not necessarily the case. We’ll have to wait and see what the courts say”.

Sebastian: One of Daphne Caruana Galizia’s sisters said the libels were part of a wider strategy to shut her up, designed to eat up her time and money. 

Fearne: “I disagree. If you want to stand by the rule of law, then there has to be freedom of expression, but of course people who are written about have the right to reply in court.”

Sebastian: “The economy minister got a court order to freeze her bank accounts to guarantee she would pay him if she lost a libel case.”

Fearne: “And thats what happens in a country with the rule of law…all around the world, people who feel aggrieved have the right to ask for a garnishee order. This happens everywhere in the world. Surely you’re not criticising that, are you?”

On the Panama Papers

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Sebastian reminded Fearne of Joseph Muscat’s defence of his chief of staff Keith Schembri and minister Konrad Mizzi following the Panama Papers scandal, namely that “they would have had to resign under normal circumstances but I needed them to implement important projects like the power station”.

Sebastian: “That’s pretty brazen and permissive, isn’t it?”

Fearne: “Nobody is above the rule of law in Malta…”

Sebastian: “Except these two…”

Fearne: “No, you’re wrong, there are magistrates investigating the Panama Papers and it’s an ongoing process. If any of the allegations turn out to have been based on fact, then they would have to resign and face justice. With all due respect, but people here are tried in court and not on TV programmes.”

Sebastian: “We’re talking about a clear breach of Cabinet and tax rules explained away as being for the best of the country.” 

Fearne: “No, they are being investigated by a magistrate. We don’t make up the rules as we go along, but the rule of law says you should be investigated by magistrates and not by the media.”

On Muscat going to court to stop Panama Papers inquiry

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Sebastian had harsh words about Joseph Muscat’s recent appeal of a magistrate’s decision to commence an inquiry into the Panama Papers, describing it as an attempt by the Prime Minister to shut up the truth. However, Fearne countered with his usual tactics. 

Fearne: “Yes, he had a right to appeal in court. Why not? He has a right to go to court and defend himself. Surely you’re not saying that the Prime Minister doesn’t have the right to defend his name in court just because he’s the Prime Minister…”

Sebastian: “He’s not trying to clear his name but to shut down the inquiry.”

Fearne: “He’s gone to court to defend his name as any normal citizen would have done…lets see what the courts say.”

Sebastian: “Which Prime Minister would try and shut down a court verdict that would deliver the truth?”

Fearne: “No, he didnt do that…he’s appealing. Surely you’re allowed to appeal at court in a country with the rule of law. Surely you’re not suggesting that courts should be allowed to just dish out sentences without the chance for an appeal.” 

Sebastian: “It’s not even a sentence, he wants to stop the inquiry.”

Fearne: “Let’s wait and see what the courts say.”

Sebastian: “This is the permissive attitude in which you get killings of journalists, isn’t it?”

Fearne: “That’s unfair. If someone is appealing in court, then that leads to murders. I’m sorry, but thats’ absolute nonsense. Because there is rule of law, you must…”

Sebastian: “Use procedures to shut down investigations?”

Fearne: “No, you use procedures…why, shouldn’t you be allowed to just because you’re the Prime Minister?”

What did you make of this interview? Let us know in the comments section 

READ NEXT: How It Happened: Malta Kept Waiting For Police Evidence Against Caruana Galizia Murder Suspects

Tim is interested in the rapid evolution of human society and is passionate about justice, human rights and cutting-edge political debates. You can follow him on Instagram or Twitter/X at @timdiacono or reach out to him at [email protected]

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